Greece Hotels Travel - The Laws of Plato
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Manufacturer: University Of Chicago Press
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Average Customer Rating:  
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Binding: Paperback
Dewey Decimal Number: 321.07
EAN: 9780226671109
ISBN: 0226671100
Label: University Of Chicago Press
Manufacturer: University Of Chicago Press
Number Of Items: 1
Number Of Pages: 576
Publication Date: 1988-03-15
Publisher: University Of Chicago Press
Studio: University Of Chicago Press
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Editorial Reviews:
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The Laws, Plato's longest dialogue, has for centuries been recognized as the most comprehensive exposition of the practical consequences of his philosophy, a necessary corrective to the more visionary and utopian Republic. In this animated encounter between a foreign philosopher and a powerful statesman, not only do we see reflected, in Plato's own thought, eternal questions of the relation between political theory and practice, but we also witness the working out of a detailed plan for a new political order that embodies the results of Plato's mature reflection on the family, the status of women, property rights, criminal law, and the role of religion and the fine arts in a healthy republic.
"Because it succeeds in being both literal and comprehensive, it is by far superior to any translation available. By reproducing dramatic detail often omitted, such as oaths, hesitations, repetitions, and forms of address, Pangle allows the reader to follow the dialogue's interplay between argument and dramatic context. . . . Pangle's translation captures the excitement and the drama of Plato's text."—Mary P. Nichols, Ancient Philosophy
"Pangle's achievement is remarkable. . . . The accompanying interpretive essay is an excellent distillation of a dialogue three times its size. The commentary is thoughtful, even profound; and it amply demonstrates the importance of reading Plato carefully and from a translation that is true to his language."—Patrick Coby, American Political Science Review
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Spotlight customer reviews:
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Customer Rating:
Summary: Laying down the law...
Comment: When one thinks of Plato and his ideas of politics, one naturally gravitates toward his best-known work, the Republic. In that book, Plato set up the ideal city-state, with classes born and bred to specific functions and roles in society, and a sense of philosophical outlook consistent across the board. However, such a society was unlikely to be brought out, in Plato's time and, as it turned out, in any other.
Plato tried at different times to persuade rulers to become his envisioned philosopher-king; the last attempt was with a tyrant of Syracuse, who in the end imprisoned Plato rather than following his directions. Plato wrote this work, 'The Laws', as the last of his dialogues. Its difference from the Republic is immediately apparent in the absence of Socrates as a character - Plato at the end of his life has finally taken to working in his own right and not through a proxy.
Just looking at the contents will show the breadth of this work - it involves practically every aspect of civil society: legislative bodies (and Plato has some scathing commentaries on some that he has known); education and its proper role and method (including even drinking parties as part of the educational process); ideas of monarchy, democracy, and the balance of power (some American constitutional ideas were generated from a reading (and occasional misreading) of this work); civil administration; arts and sciences; military and sports training; sexual conduct; economics; criminal law, torts, and judicial process; religion and theology; civil law, property and family law; Plato even argues for the need of a 'nocturnal council', one that delves not only into the practical aspects of the law, but also their philosophical bases.
According to translator and editor Trevor Saunders, 'The reader of the Republic who picks up the Laws is likely to have difficulty in believing that the same person wrote both.' Saunders speculates that Plato in his older years changed from optimism to pessimism, from idealism to realism, but that this is not all there is to the assumption, because in actual fact the transition from the Republic to the Laws involves transitioning unattainable ideals to attainable realities.
Plato describes the construction of a utopian society in great detail, down to the number of citizens permitted to live in the city (5040) and the length of time foreigners might reside in the city (20 years). This shows that Plato considers politics to be an exact science (indeed, despite the inclusion of the 'nocturnal council', he did see his system of laws being essentially unalterable through history). Plato is not averse to the use of force and coercion to set up and maintain the utopian society. Finally, Plato sees a self-contained kind of society that is likely to become xenophobic to the extreme, with less tolerance toward its own citizens than toward those foreigners permitted to live and work in the city. Indeed, for the virtuous citizens to be free to pursue their virtue, the majority of the manual work and crafts must be done by a worker class composed of slaves or immigrant workers, or both.
Plato's Laws suffer from much greater criticism in the modern world than the Republic, in part because it is a more 'realistic' work, with a reality that no longer applies. However, many of his insights are worthwhile, and the overall structure of his society reflected in the Laws is worth discussion as much as is that of the Republic. One of the problems with this work vis-a-vis the Republic is its length (the Laws is considerable longer); another problem is that it lacks the dramatic reading possible from the Republic, rather the difference between a political debate and a legal seminar. Still, it is an important work, showing how Plato's thought had shifted in his lifetime.
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Summary: A Useful Corrective to a Distorted View of Plato
Comment: Plato's "Republic" is used most often in college courses to illustrate Plato's thoughts on politics, but it does not seem to contain a serious political program. The characters in the "Republic" are mostly young men not yet entrusted with political responsibility who are, nevertheless, concerned with justice and how a city would have to be composed in order to be fully just. That such a city could never, in fact, come about becomes less important than the questions of justice and soul that the discussion raises. Obviously (and by Plato's intention) the "Republic" does not present a practical political program. Students relying on this dialogue alone to get a sense of Plato's thoughts on the best regime may be led astray, especially if they are guided by a bad teacher (of which there are many in the universities). The best corrective to this is to read Pangle's translation of Plato's "Laws". In this dialogue an Athenian Stranger discusses various proposed laws with a Cretan who is shortly to assist in the founding of the new colony of Magnesia. The laws and regulations proposed by the Stranger are concessions to the way men are, rather than idealistic portraits of how they should be. The rule of philosopher-kings is not proposed, and the fact that all three interlocutors come from cities that at one time or another were at war with one another introduces a note of distrust and seriousness that is missing in the more playful "Republic"; this seriousness befits the discussion's more practical nature. Pangle's translation is literal and trustworthy where other translations take liberties with Plato's terminology, while the notes ameliorate the limitations of the translation form. If you are unsatisfied with this, prepare to learn the Greek since a better translation is not likely to be forthcoming. If Pangle's Interpretive Essay leaves a bad taste in your mout, feel free to read "The Argument and the Action of Plato's Laws" by Leo Strauss. My impression, however, is that Pangle's essay is more appropriate for readers who may find the unfamiliar "Laws" more, well, unfamiliar than, say, the "Republic". No one can deny that the "Laws" is more complex than the "Republic" and builds on many of that dialogue's insights, coming as it does at the end of Plato's career. To my mind, however, it is as indispensable as the "Republic" and teachers do their students a great disservice by not assigning the "Laws" more often. In conclusion, I highly recommend this dialogue and translation--accept no substitutes.
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Summary: Where's the Philosophy?
Comment: This is a very flawed book. The translation suffices; however, the Interpretive essay is horribly flawed. Pangle bases his essay with direct reference to 'The Aplopgy' a profoundly exoteric work that does not shed sufficent insight into Socrates' view of philosophy. Even worse, Pangle states that 'The Laws' is what Socrates would have done if he had the time and oppurtunity to be a legislater. Garbage. There is no support for this wild asserion. Moreover, Plato himself took great pains to not include Socrates in 'The Laws', for his name never appears in the text. Yes, there are brilliant men who think The Athenian Stranger is Socrates (Leo Strauss and Aristotle) but Pangle just takes their word for it, he cannot argue his own case, a very unphilosophic thing to do, and bulldoses his way into his essay using Socrates name as a substitute for The Athenian Stranger. I found this, personally, quite apalling. There must be a deeper reason why Plato took such care in drafting his dialogues. Pardon my snotiness here, but I think Pangle is just imatating his Cornell professor Allan Bloom who wrote a truly philosophic masterpiece in 1968 with his translation of 'The Republc', why Pangle, at such a young age took on such a deeply complicated dialogue is beyond me, Leo Strauss waited until he was in his sixties before he published anything on 'The Laws'. Think how Book X of 'The Republic' denigrates imitation. Pangle's entire Interpretive Essay should be rewritten- it's unphilosophical. He should return to 'The Republic' and make an effort at understanding how each book relates to one another and especially how Plato himself thought they related. Such an endevour would be worthy of the name schlorship, philosophy, and Allan Bloom.
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Summary: Great Book on the politics
Comment: The Laws by Plato is one of the best book on the political science. Here are some reasons why I think the Laws is the best book of the politics. First, This book extensively and thoroughly covers every aspects of the society such as education, laws, politics, justice, and religion. Unlike the Republic, the Laws has some pratical values in it. In other word, every political idea in this book is applicable to the Greek-States at the Hellinic period.
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